Ad Hoc work on RC

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Ad Hoc work on RC

Postby finsout » Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:13 pm

Just an FYI. TimB ScottyB and I will be doing some small projects on Rusty chair within the next week. We are going to patch up some of the berms that have crumbled as well as build a dirt whoop over PART of the first log heading downhill past the Broken Arrow merger. Kevin has approved this and we will NOT be covering the whole log. We are going to keep the existing line for the folks who like logs but we are going to add the dirt whoop to the extreme right of this log for people who like a more flowing line. PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE THIS WHOOP!
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Re: Ad Hoc work on RC

Postby finsout » Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:10 am

The whoop is complete. we found a great supply of clay from a downed tree but it was very dry. Tim had a tamper and we packed it as good as we could but it was still loose so we used duff as a mat for the short term until we get a few good rains. We also cleaned out some of the water run-offs up RC and patched the second berm coming downhill. Shot prior to the duff being added:

Image
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Re: Ad Hoc work on RC

Postby finsout » Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:12 am

Finished view coming downhill on RC:

Image
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Re: Ad Hoc work on RC

Postby finsout » Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:13 am

Coming up RC:
Image
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Re: Ad Hoc work on RC

Postby crsmithpe » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:40 am

This is sure to cause... Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!
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Re: Ad Hoc work on RC

Postby ScottyB » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:49 am

crsmithpe wrote:This is sure to cause... Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!


:lol: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by ScottyB on Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ad Hoc work on RC

Postby Glancing Aft » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:00 am

Really? That log is a problem for people? I clear that entire log without making any contact with it on my rigid SS...

But good work, glad to see you guys out there improving our trails!
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Re: Ad Hoc work on RC

Postby finsout » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:43 am

Charles...its 'real old testament type stuff'.

GA I'm not sure 'problem' is the right word. I'd say more like an alternate way around that maintains flow but still keeps the original line.
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Re: Ad Hoc work on RC

Postby ScottyB » Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:00 pm

Out riding tonight, lots of compliments on the new line. People seem to really dig it. ;)
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Re: Ad Hoc work on RC

Postby Glancing Aft » Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:43 pm

finsout wrote:GA I'm not sure 'problem' is the right word. I'd say more like an alternate way around that maintains flow but still keeps the original line.


I kid, I kid. I know having different lines on a TTF is good, I just never viewed that log as a flow interrupter since it's so easy to bunny hop. Anyways, keep up the good work!
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Re: Ad Hoc work on RC

Postby finsout » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:15 am

Looks like the patch on berm 2 held up pretty good. Will try to fix berm 4 soon but there really isn't a good source of dirt near that one so we will need a wheel barrow to get it done. Will probably wait until Fall to build up berm 5 (last one heading downhill).
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Re: Ad Hoc work on RC

Postby knobbysideup » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:07 pm

What is wrong with you people? Why are you so damned bent on building and digging things on what are supposed to be 'singletrack'? If you can't ride it, then don't, but for crying out loud, you are building fscking freeways. Thank FSM you guys aren't involved with the rattling creek singletrack.

Aside from widening the trail, it destroys the aesthetics for cyclists, hikers, joggers, and equestrians alike. That is an ugly blemish on a nice trail.

FYI, this is exactly the type of crap that was used in arguments by the game commission to kick us out of the state game lands several years ago. AFAIK, those trails are all still illegal to us. Thanks a lot.
Last edited by diggingtrail on Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ad Hoc work on RC

Postby finsout » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:25 pm

Thanks. Fyi....state game lands are paid for by hunting licenses so I've got no problems with the hunters dictating how they are used. As for the trail, it was already wide at that point and there was already build up against the log so all we did was make it more formal. Nobody is forcing you to take that line you know. The exisiting line hasn't changed a bit.
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Re: Ad Hoc work on RC

Postby diggingtrail » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:57 pm

Ah yes. Biblical it has become.

Knobby, I've said this before when you compare York County Parks trails to Michaux and Rattling Creek, YCP trails see an exponential number of users per trail than the State Forests and Parks. I'd be willing to almost guarantee that Rusty Chair at Rocky Ridge will see more users tomorrow than Rattling Creek will see in a month. Our trails are used by more bikers, more hikers, and more equestrians. And because of their easy to access nature, see a much higher number of beginner users in all use groups. Therefore there is a greater need to have trails, and options that ALL users can enjoy.

Now this little log on Rusty Chair. It is the first log after a long flow session of trail. This is where RC switches back to a more technical style instead of flow. This was an abrupt transition for some people. I heard about it from multiple riders. I also personally removed, 4 times, ramps made out of sticks and rocks that were placed dead center of the trail (a big no-no on multi-use trails). Also both logs in this section had already had line widening. So I gave the guys the ok to do this. It doesn't harm the line, or impede hikers and equestrians from stepping over the log.

How many people are actually still active with the RCST? I've heard that they have even fewer trail-workers than we do. I'd bet they'd appreciate guys like Finsout, coming up to help them trim trails and do other work. It's guys like these that make the trails that you complain about. If it wasn't for people like Fins doing trailwork there wouldn't be a Rusty Chair. Trail 4 would still be a washed out mess that wasn't any fun to ride anymore. If you can't see that Rusty Chair is better than the previous trail I don't even know what to say. And if you can see that it's better, why would you insult the very people that constructed it? I don't get it.
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Re: Ad Hoc work on RC

Postby zero » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:58 pm

Have to agree with knobby. The trails at RR are built, then dumbed down for less experienced riders. But beefing existing trails up is a BIG no no! RC is clearly a gravity fed trail with features and obstacles for experienced riders. The idea is to find the flow on the trail with whats there. Why change the trail to accomodate anti-obstacle mountain bikers? Instead of dumbing down the challenging features, mark the trail as an experienced rider trail. Ski resorts do this and it works out great. They don't take a black diamond trail and ease it up for the flow of it. Or how about moguls? Should they take those out because someone wants a flowier line?
I just got into whitewater kayaking and have gone down the Codorus a few times. There is one rapid that is my "obstacle." I don't go out there with a group of guys and remove boulders, or slow the flow, or build a bypass. I don't petition and insist on building a chicken line. I do what you're supposed to do and get out and portage around the rapid. Just like bikers should do when they reach an obstacle. Can't do it? Walk over or around it. I need to build my skills up to make the smooth flow through the rapid. Riders should do the same to make this log.
My only issue with RC is that it is clearly a gravity trail. The parks won't allow a one way trail, so why put it in? There are features that need to be approached with speed, and some features encourage it, (ie: berms!). Horses and hikers don't use berms, so how is this trail multi-user friendly? I don't think they're fans of rock drops either. So, we'll pick on a dinky log. One that can be pretty much rammed into and rolled right over. I think we should name the log, "roadie log." I don't want these trails to become smooth dirt streets in the woods, do you? I want trails, rough and rocky with logs and roots. I want mountain bike trails.
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Re: Ad Hoc work on RC

Postby diggingtrail » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:17 pm

Taken from my post when RC was first opened: Rusty Chair is .7 miles long, and has a 100 foot elevation difference from the top of the trail to the bottom, with about 40 ft of climbing thrown in the middle due to the various grade reversals. The average gradient comes out to a very sustainable 2.7%.

That is not a gravity fed trail at only 2.7% grade. I love to climb RC almost as much as descend it,as it really does flow uphill. I know a lot of other riders that feel the same. It is up to all riders to realize that they are responsible for watching out for other users. Do I rail the berms? Yep, but only when I know that there aren't other users on the other side of the corner. When I can't tell, I check my speed. None of the technical lines, ie rocks and drops, are on the main trail line which is the way to do it.

Zero, should I wait to design progressive trails (compared to what we have for the most part here in the county parks) until we have full signage, difficulty ratings, and maps in place. Or should I begin the build out now while the above takes its time working through the red tape, such as I have? I tried to design RC to give more advanced riders the kind of trail they wanted. Do you know how much rock and dirt was moved during the build out of the trail? Was that dumbing it down then? Or does dumbing down start after the trail is "finished"?
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Re: Ad Hoc work on RC

Postby ScottyB » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:22 pm

The original line is still there... If you want to go over the log do it. If you want to go over the dirt ramp do it. The choice is yours.
Riders we have talked to on the trail like the 2nd line and appreciated the work.
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Re: Ad Hoc work on RC

Postby kraft » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:37 pm

I am not even going to talk about this log. I remember what happened last time I got involved with "the log". But this thread is getting to be so much fun that I just got to get involved. Personally I could give a flying frankfurter about any trail I ride anymore. "What ever it is I ride it." Learned that from a 17 year old kid at Rocky Ridge when I asked him about the trails. He said that with a big smile on his face. I may ride everything but not that well since I sock as a technical rider. Rocky Ridge is a great little park that is close to home that I can ride. Is it perfect? Nope...probably never was and never will be. Does it get dumbed down. Yep! but you can still find a whole bunch of big rocks and big logs that are there to destroy yourself on. On the illegal braids and trails, which I never ride by the way, but if I did ride them then I would tear down any build ups on logs. I figure those illegal trails should be hard and not user friendly. That's what the sanctioned trails are for - trails for, everyone.

I do not disagree with zero and knobbyside up on particular trail systems. There is a place for the classic single track like rattling creek, michaux and rothrock and anyone that does screw with those trails should be castroiled. Rocky Ridge is not one of them. Just too many people. You've got down hillers, you got up hillers, you got free riders, you got racers, you have xc riders, you got those retarded single speeders, you have horses, you have hikers, you have dogs and snakes and squirrels and the 1 deer that lives in the park. I hate people, they seem to screw everything up, but that's not the point . I'm sorry, I don't hate people I just like it better when they're not around.

If I can say one good thing about what finsout did it would be that I now know what a whoop is. Didn't really know until he built one and then took a picture of it. So that makes me wonder, is a whoopee a whoop so big that it actually scares the pee out of you when you go over it? Kevin was that a whoopee you went over at Seven Eleven Springs. And don't forget about the benefit to wildlife. Harvey the blacksnake can now make it over the log. I saw him trying to jump over it last week.....pathetic.

See what you instigated charles. Way to go.
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Re: Ad Hoc work on RC

Postby diggingtrail » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:45 pm

Thanks for the :lol: Kraft.

And you actually said a bit of what I tried to say, better than I did.
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Re: Ad Hoc work on RC

Postby knobbysideup » Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:56 pm

I can't believe you guys are actually *proud* of those pictures. What an ugly mess. What happened to "Leave no trace?".

That feature doesn't blend into anything, and is ugly as hell. Here's a rule of thumb. If you need to dump wheelbarrows of dirt into something, perhaps that isn't where your trail should be.

I see that thing as damaging as equestrians digging post holes after a week long rain. At least the equestrians don't claim that their damage is 'maintenence'. Disgraceful.

I'm really disappointed in YAMBA's need to constantly 'dig trail'.
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